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HOVERRACE.COM: fast - fun - free
HoverRace is an open-source 3D racing game.
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Igglybob
Source Developer
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 1264
Location: Atlanta, GA
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 Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:12 pm Post subject: Letter to Richard Langlois |
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I've spoken with Richard in the past on a couple occasions about getting the source. I never really got anywhere, but I'd like to send him a letter, whether it be snail mail, fax to his work, phone call, email, or through MSN. This letter needs to get through to him.
First, though, I'd like to know what people think of it, if I've left anything out, if anything needs to be revised, etc. I've removed my phone number and college email just because I don't need to post those here. I'm sure if you really wanted to you could dig them up, but I'm not going to make it any easier.
| THE LETTER ITSELF wrote: | December 14, 2005
Dear Richard:
I've spoken with you a couple of times about the source code of HoverRace. As you can probably remember, I was interested in obtaining the source so your game could be maintained. Over the past 10 years, advances in technology have made HoverRace obsolete, and also somewhat hard to run. Very few computers run at the default resolution of 640x480 anymore, and even less use 256 colors. That problem can be worked around, but HoverRace also has problems with routers and NAT. One must manipulate their router in a very complicated manner, remove the router, or place themselves in the DMZ to play others online. Another issue is with faster computers – they are able to achieve much higher frames-per-second averages, which for whatever reason slows the speed of the craft in-game. As a result, players with better machines are unable to do as well. For example, I run HoverRace on a 3.2GHz machine, with which I can get 41 second laps regularly at the track “The Alley2”. On the other hand, when I play it on my old 500MHz laptop, I am able to get 40 second laps regularly at the same track, racing the exact same way. Yet another issue is with tracks – players cannot see each other above the height of 18 meters or below the height of -18 meters.
All the problems listed here, minor though they may be, could easily be amended with a few lines of codes or changes to existing code. The visibility of other crafts above 18 meters could likely be fixed by removing a single line of code. I am unsure of whether you know about the people attempting to modify HoverRace, but they are out there. One person has changed the default in-game font. Another has modified HoverCAD to accept height values from -8000 meters to 8000 meters, as opposed to the earlier limit of -20 to 20. He also discovered that textures become a solid color when stretched enough. As a community, we've discovered ways to manipulate the game in ways you may have never intended when you designed it – tracks that defy geometry, 3D objects that can be driven through, even ways to create tracks in a text editor. People took the time to hex edit ObjFac1.dat and change textures and crafts. New textures were discovered, and the fact that you could place missiles and dummy crafts inside of a track was also discovered. I myself am involved in a project to create a new HoverCAD, which is capable of using all these features, which you may or may not have intended to use in possible later versions. We have even discovered that one might be able to create an expansion to HoverRace by creating an ObjFac2.dat and editing the right files.
My point in this is not to say that we have a dedicated modification community, but that HoverRace itself is an extremely modifiable game. That is precisely why it has lasted for the last 10 years, and it is also why it will continue to exist for some time. But over time, it is becoming harder and harder for people to play the game; firewalls and routers stand in the way for most people. As technology changes, it will continue to become harder to play this game without emulators and special tools. However, if the community were to come into possession of either part of the source code or all of it, all these problems could be eliminated and HoverRace could once again be a game that would be easy for everyone to play. Not only this possibility exists; with the source, one could do anything to the game – add crafts, make new objects, make new textures, revamp the graphics engine, and even make games between 40 or 50 players possible. Personally, my mouth waters at the possibility of being able to improve such an excellent and fun game.
The reason HoverRace has stayed alive for all these years is, quite frankly, because it is an excellent game. The unique physics engine makes it incredibly tough to achieve low lap times, and because of counterintuitive quirks (for example, bouncing off a wall gives you more speed) it is almost always possible to drive a faster lap. At one time, people though 42 seconds was incredibly fast for the track “The Alley2”. Now, the record time approaches 35 seconds. I, personally, after five years, am still not able to even get a 38 second lap at that track. This game doesn't get boring – you can always get better. Even if you don't want to get better, you can still design tracks in almost any way imaginable, and on top of that, there are always more tracks to be downloaded. Judging by the amount of people who come into the IMR regularly and say, “Wow, this game is still alive? I loved it back in 1996,” I think I can reasonably claim that you have created an excellent game, Richard.
By this point, I'm reasonably sure you've figured out the intent of this letter – to persuade you to release the source code. That is precisely the point of this letter. I've already described how much it would help the community and that the possibilities would be endless.
As you've already said to me, you have qualms about releasing your property to the world. I suggested the GPL license; you weren't sure about it. That is perfectly okay; a custom-made license can be drafted by a member of the community, revised and approved by you, and used. An alternative to the GPL is the BSD license (http://www.opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php). This license requires that all works created from the original source include the creator and copyright of the original program. In this way, your name would be on all future versions, and nobody could remove it and redistribute it without removing your name without breaking the law. Like I said earlier, a custom license can easily be created.
I am not familiar with the legal processes involved, but if you are the owner of the HoverRace source code, then there should be none. If John Ferber owns any rights to the code, I would think you would have to get his permission. Some members have spoken to him in the past; he could be found and contacted easily.
I am going to email this letter to you and / or send it to you via MSN Messenger until I get confirmation that you received it. The intent of that is not to be obnoxious but just to make sure that you got the message. I have sent you messages in the past on MSN Messenger that have gone unanswered; I don't know (nor is it important) if you were busy or never got them. This letter, though, I would certainly like to make sure you receive.
Please consider all I've said in this letter, and contact me in return with your thoughts.
Best Regards,
Ryan Curtin (“Igglybob the Great”)
xxx-xxx-xxxx
igglybobthegreat@hotmail.com
xxxxxxx@gatech.edu |
I certainly hope the color scheme doesn't make that hard on the eyes.
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Troydan
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:29 pm Post subject: . |
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| Very well written. Faxing that to him would be the most guarteed way to know he has recieved it. |
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Igglybob
Source Developer
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 1264
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Austin
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 1085
Location: Stafford, England
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:07 am Post subject: |
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A very well written letter Iggly. Great work.
That 'could' be him I guess, but it's hard to tell. |
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Vigilante
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Vigilante on Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Castro
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 256
Location: WA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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i think its to long,
while everything in their is fastinating, remeber he abandond the game many years ago, and a page of info of whats going on probably wont motivate him, i think if it shorts and make your point more well known (instead of just saying a change in a code, or removeing a line of code, or adding code, let him know you are after the code for yourself).
and umm, offer him a hundred bucks or something.
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Skelator
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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I think it should be shorter too. It should also sound more like we are trying to help him rather than just scroungw the source off him for our own greed. I mean there's not very many programmers who would just want to hand their hard worked code over to a bunch of freeloaders.
If he has the source-code then he needs to gain something to convince him give it out.
The money idea sounds good but there would need to be a fair way to do it. This is the only safe way I can think of:
Richard opens a paypal account and HoverRace players make donations until Richard has a set amount of money, at which point he releases the code.
I would donate towards HoveRace becoming open source if I knew it was for real.
I guess it's all a matter of trust and convincing. THis is Richards work and if he wants to keep it closed then that is ultimately his choice though. |
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Igglybob
Source Developer
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 1264
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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What use could he possibly have for the source code?
Let me quote the conversation I had with him a long time ago:
| gaim logs wrote: | (14:34:35) Richard: I found some disks labelled Hoverrrace backup the other day. I dont know if they are the latest sources however
(14:34:54) Igglybob the Great's Answering Machine: that sounds cool
(14:35:14) Igglybob the Great's Answering Machine: if you're willing to donate the code/info, I'm sure the community would appreciate it
(14:35:22) Richard: I also have a web site on my computer, mybe I could drop everything in a folder
(14:35:34) Igglybob the Great's Answering Machine: yeah
(14:35:36) Igglybob the Great's Answering Machine: whatever works
(14:35:41) Richard: wait I<ll check the date
(14:36:28) Richard: october 96
(14:36:50) Igglybob the Great's Answering Machine: well, if you put them up, that would be great
(14:36:56) Igglybob the Great's Answering Machine: just let us know where
(14:37:54) Richard: I would like to first do something of a legal pages just as everyone is doing on the net to prevent lawsuits
(14:38:10) Igglybob the Great's Answering Machine: yeah
(14:38:22) Igglybob the Great's Answering Machine: I don't know much about legal stuff, so I don't know what that would entail
(14:38:30) Igglybob the Great's Answering Machine: but I'd be willing to help; I usually have a lot of free time
(14:38:57) Richard: Ok thanks
(14:39:25) Igglybob the Great's Answering Machine: I suppose you could always just rerelease the code under the GPL
(14:40:05) Richard: Not sure about GPL
(14:40:25) Igglybob the Great's Answering Machine: yeah
(14:40:29) Igglybob the Great's Answering Machine: it's your code, so it's up to you |
It seems to me that money isn't exactly what he's after (though I would certainly be willing to donate) - to me it looks like a matter of him just taking the time to do it. I was trying to give him an idea that his name would be on all future code. I mean, realistically, what could the code possibly do for him now? Likely nothing, as the game is ten years old. I tried to give him a sense of what could be done with the code, and that his creation could actually survive.
The real intent of this letter is to get him to give a response. If he says no, he'll likely give a reason. If he wants money he'll say it.
Although I personally agree that it is a bit long, what could be cut out? Each paragraph serves a specific function. The first is an introduction to the situation, which is necessary. The second is a solution. The third is a compliment of his game (also necessary; we can't act like we don't care about the game). The fourth is a trick I've seen used in persuasive letters. I get to the point right there. In the fifth I try to alleviate fears he's already talked about to me. The sixth (more of a sentence really) is just adding on to what I said in the fifth, but it doesn't match up nicely with the last sentence in the fifth paragraph so I just put it in its own. The rest is necessary - if I have to keep sending it to him, he needs to know why.
In all reality, it's not that long. I would think that Richard, who seems to have a coherent grasp on English, could read and understand it in less than five minutes. Certainly he must have some curiosity as to what happened to his game.
I see your points, though, but now you have to help me decide what goes.
And Castro, if I just said "I want the source code" that has no persuasive force behind it. Like Skel said, he has to get something from it, and I'm trying to convince him that his name will live on in the code (important if you're a programmer, seems irrelevant if you're not a programmer) and that he's doing something really nice and he can feel great about himself.
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| You forgot to tell him to suck cocks in hell? |
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Skelator
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 396
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Guest, I think you're probably the one who should be told to do that. |
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ED
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 45
Location: Mato Grosso do Sul - Brazil
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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nice letter iglypop
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HoverRace foreva, mothafocka. |
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Castro
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 256
Location: WA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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have him sell it on ebay
crap buy those hard drives or floppies or whatever from him, they might me more goodies on there... i think grokksoft was working on another game when they disappeared.
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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As sad as the fact may be, you've got to face it....
He just clearly doesn't want to give it out - can't you see these excuses are exactly what someone would use who just wants to nudge you to the side? |
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mydan
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 10
Location: Lancashire, England
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| guest = me |
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trogdor
Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Mydan is right.... many progammers treasure their work. I know personally because there are some of my own source codes that I wouldn't wanna give away unless I got a hell of a lot of money.
To a programmer giving away your source is like giving away one of your children. |
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