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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:25 am 
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Well I've known 'Vigilante' for a month or so now, without knowing it was actually Gothrey, and I guess when I found out, it makes you realise that Vigilante was actually a lot like Gothrey, and that the only difference between thinking he was a dick or not was that his past was just one of a player who had returned to the fold.

Now I'll admit, in his Gothrey name he has bashed me a bit, and I've bashed him too, but I'm willing to let things go, as it's been over a year since those incidents occured with HR.com and HP.com, and Vigilante or Gothrey or whatever you want to call him... well, he's got a bit to offer for the game, and a lot of enthusiasm, so personally I'm all for him staying.

BUT, this isn't just about what I think, it's about what you think too. I think HaP, Skel and mydan have something to input on this, as it's not just my decision at the end of the day.

The poll will last for 7 days (finishing on the 15th if I'm right)

Here's the chat where I told him I knew he was Gothrey (thanks to Skel pointing it out)

Quote:
.--------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Session Start: 08 January 2006 |
| Participants: |
| Austin (sir_brock@hotmail.com) |
| Vigilante (vigilante_gb@hotmail.com) |
.--------------------------------------------------------------------.
[08:05:23] Austin: Skel told me who you really are :)
[08:05:32] Austin: hows it going Goofers?
[08:05:45] Vigilante: apparently he told ever1 not that it bothers me
[08:05:57] Austin: well to be honest i'm disappointed
[08:06:01] Vigilante: though i must admit that i was hoping it would
last at least 2 more days
[08:06:02] Austin: but it shows you want to help
[08:06:14] Vigilante: i was eventually going to tell ever1 person by
person
[08:06:17] Austin: talk normal gothrey
[08:06:23] Vigilante: i just shouldnt have told skel
[08:06:24] Austin: don't cut corners :P
[08:06:25] Vigilante: Alright.
[08:06:26] Austin: its unlike you
[08:06:33] Vigilante: Thank you.
[08:06:41] Austin: it has fooled me
[08:06:56] Vigilante: I'll be changing this name around, and I'll
leave HR.com alone if you want me to.
[08:07:04] Austin: and to be honest it's been rather lame of me to ban
you, we live and learn
[08:07:10] Austin: and people change, yada yada
[08:07:11] Vigilante: I just really wanted to help, and knew that you
guys would never let Gothrey help.
[08:07:20] Austin: i'll put a poll up on hr.com about it
[08:07:26] Austin: and depending on votes
[08:07:39] Austin: that'll be whether i have to ask you to leave
[08:07:42] Austin: or if you can come back
[08:08:05] Vigilante: If you ask me to leave, I'll leave.
[08:08:24] Austin: well i'd prefer you to stick around
[08:08:32] Austin: you've got a lot of motivation as far as helping hr
goes
[08:09:10] Vigilante: I'd like to point out this, though:
I needed to do this because I made a few mistakes before.
I know they're unforgivable, but at the time, I was silly
enough to actually think they were basically the only
option I had.
I was wrong, and I apologize.
[08:09:39] Austin: thats fine by me
[08:09:48] Austin: i'll post this chat up for people to see
[08:10:49] Vigilante: Oh, and by the way:
After "meeting" you with Vigilante. I've come to realise
that you're a good person, and even though I've always
respected you (albeit, in a spiteful way earlier), I think
you're a good friend, and a very nice and open person... I
think this especially because of those chats we had about
your lady friend.
[08:11:15] Vigilante: Oh! Um, I don't know if you want anyone else to
know about her, so you don't have to post all of this if
you don't want to! :P
[08:11:42] Austin: LOl :P
[08:11:51] Austin: well yeah, i suppose as things were different
[08:12:00] Austin: it was easier to just talk about it all
[08:12:43] Vigilante: Yeah, and I'm grateful for it. I don't regret
making this alias at all. Even if some people get upset
with me for it, at least I know I've made some friends
because of it, and I've gotten to know the better side of
quiet a few people.
[08:13:41] Vigilante: (Except for Skelator, who made me Deputy Leader
of his team, made me a monitor in his room, gave me his
word he wouldn't tell anyone, and after he found out that I
was a muslims, immediately started to treat me like
garbage).
[08:13:43] Austin: yeah definately, i know people were skeptical, and
so was i, i mean "vigilante_gb@hotmail.com" LOl, I was very
aware of that
[08:14:04] Vigilante: ^muslim

Yesm, but that WAS his e-mail at one point.
[08:14:15] Vigilante: In fact, he gave it to me because he never used
it.
[08:14:41] Vigilante: The funny thing is that the Profile I wrote was
basically his past, and me in the present.
[08:15:09] Austin: ah
[08:15:11] Vigilante: Although, I'll be modifying it now to tell the
truth.
That is, if I'm still allowed on HR.com after you make that
Poll.
[08:15:20] Austin: well you are for now
[08:15:30] Austin: i'll post up the chat, and you can stick with your
name Vigilante
[08:15:44] Austin: but given 7 days, we'll see how the poll goes and
go from there
[08:15:44] Vigilante: Alright. I kind-of like this name anyway! LOL
[08:15:48] Austin: :)
[08:15:53] Vigilante: Alright, sounds fair enough.
[08:16:10] Austin: I'll vote in favour of you sticking around
[08:16:30] Austin: sorry i haven't been so responsive on msn, it's
just that i can't be bothered with hr all the time
[08:16:36] Vigilante: Just do me a favour, and once I've rewritten my
Profile... Post it up so it can explain what I did? That
way, I won't be making a long-winded post, and will just
tell people to refer to my Profile for explanations.
[08:17:30] Vigilante: Yes, that's quite understandable.
Skelator told me he had "accidently" seeded some words of
doubt about Vigilante to you a long time ago, and I thought
it was because of that at first.
[08:21:55] Austin: aye, well it wasn't, so it's all good
[08:22:00] Austin: i've got to go to work now
[08:22:10] Austin: so i'll talk to you later Vig
[08:22:56] Vigilante: Have a good time at work. I'll have a good time
trying to fix my computer, and install Ubuntu Linux, just
like Vigilante said he would! :P
[08:23:04] Austin: haha, cya


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:00 am 
I have a feeling this won't effect the outcome of this poll too much, but I want to get it off of my chest anyway. As I said, I will leave HR.com alone if you all vote for me to leave. Depending on who says what, I might stay to help with, or run certain projects, while still not bothering you all on HR.com. If it's basically unanamous, and everyone wants me gone. I'll leave HoverRace completely, and even those who say they don't want me talking to them will be pleased, because I'll delete everyone off of my messengers that are from HoverRace unless otherwise specified.

Everyone: I apologize for pretending to be someone else. In actuality, everything Vigilante said (for the most part) was what I meant. It was basically me, just without that infamous Gothrey past. I'll be submitting a new, true Profile to Austin if anyone wants to know what I think of my past.

Iggly: You are, by far, the nicest HoverRacer I've ever met. Both on Vigilante and Gothrey. With Gothrey you were, at least civil. With Vigilante (as a newbie or oldbie coming back), you not only helped out in so many ways, but you also didn't treat me like I was stupid. Without you, I wouldn't be able to play HoverRace even if I wanted to. (You fixed my router problem! ;)) And, everything I said about helping with HCU was true. I'm installing Visual C++ 5.0 right now, and I'm hoping HCU's source will open in it. Also, I'm going to be running Linux, and, if you're still willing to, I'd love the help you offered with it.

Austin: I already said a short version of what I wanted to say to you, but I think you get it, so I won't make a longwinded post for you. :p

HaP: I'm extremely sorry for what I did to you specifically. I was looking for something that I probably should not have been looking for as Gothrey. As Vigilante, everything I said to you, even the promise you forced me to make, was true. As Gothrey I made many mistakes, and thought they were my only options. This was obviously untrue, and I think I might have even been trying to fool myself into believing it was true. I'm still serious about helping you with the IMR Source. However, since I know that you probably don't trust me, and have no reason to: I'd be very happy if I could just host a Room for everyone, because I think my connection is good enough to not cause much lag.

ChamP, Troydan, Zooz, Luke, BioHazard, ED, Rock, Yakoo, DK, and SBD: I'm sorry for not admitting who I was to you. Most of you were somewhat civil with me as Gothrey, but I wanted to earn your friendship as Vigilante before telling you my old alias. For some of you, it was a mere matter of not wanting others to find out at the time, even though I wanted to tell you.

Skelator: What can I say? You do have a good side. It just doesn't come out often enough. You said you knew it was me all along, made me Deputy Leader of Team Steeky, made me a monitor in the VIP Room, and said you wouldn't tell anyone that it was me until I was comfortable letting people know. It wasn't until you knew I had embraced Islam as my belief that you broke your word, and started being... The old you. I'll be honest: I used to respect you, but now I've got little to no respect for you. I don't expect you to apologize for what you've said to me, or even for going back on your word. However, I've changed enough to say: If someone apologizes to me, they will get a second chance at friendship.

HaP, BaP, Dan, SF, Iggly and Austin: Even though I didn't speak to most of you as Vigilante, I always had respect for you. Even as Gothrey. Albeit, I didn't show that respect in any good manner, but it was still there. I think most of you have personal qualities I could like, but that's only going to happen if you give me a chance.

I meant to make this a short semi-"Farewell" post, but it wound up one of my longwinded rants. If you all let me stay, I'll work more on that, too. :p

I really do like the name Vigilante, and he was on GreenBush, and did have the ID [1-1685]. And, yes: He did give it to me.

I think that's about all I have to say, except that you should go to http://www.hoverrace.com/?page=profiles&profile=Vigilante+%7C%7CSteeky%7C%7C tomarrow to see my whole past (from my point of view). If you want, you can help tell me what to add/change/remove in it.

Now, go on and vote on my fate! :p ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:48 pm
Posts: 395
I said this:

Quote:
Johhnyb: I wont tell anyone yet..... As long as you behave yourself


However as time passed and I had time to think about it, I decided not to be a part of your deception. My main reason for spilling the beans is not anything to do with Islam, it's that you tried to decieve me into sending you Haps source code. I believe people can change and maybe you really did want to, but as recently as last week you have been up to your old tricks of lying and manipulation. Even in Islam they have rules about that.


Last edited by Skelator on Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:52 am 
Alright, let's take this in parts, shall we?:

Skelator wrote:
lol, I like the way I get made out to be the dishonest one for telling the truth about your true identity. It was all a devious, dishonest and deceptive ploy for you to get your hands on the IMR source code.

No, no it was not. I already have a copy of HaP's exe, and a copy of the original source code (which you obtained from me, nonetheless).

Skelator wrote:
However as time passed and I had time to think about it I decided not to be a part of your deception. My main reason for spilling the beans is not anything to do with Islam, it's that you tried to decieve me into sending you Haps source code and were using your new alias to try and gain power in HoverRace.

If that's really your reason, and you really believe that (which even I think you don't), then you would have told everyone about me being Gothrey from the very beginning. It wasn't a week after I started being Vigilante that I talked to HaP about wanting to help him with his IMR, and I made promises to him which he said he'd think about after talking to you. Hence why I was apparently "decieving you" (Which makes no sense, because you knew it was me, and HaP knew I wanted to help, and was going to talk to you). I've never asked you directly for the source-code. Nor would I. Since you have all of our conversations logged, if you can prove otherwise: Do so. Else, stop spreading lies.

Skelator wrote:
As I said before, I' be willing to give you the benefit of a doubt if you behaved yourself. However as ever you're trying to manipulate and divide the HoverRace community.

Using the word manipulate, I suppose I can't argue against that. Although, all I was doing was "manipulating" by eliminating my past from people. As for "deviding the HoverRace community"? You're full of shit, and you know it. Why not post all of our conversations so people can see what I said to you?

Skelator wrote:
Basically all that niceness and ass kissing is meaningless because you were just trying to manipulate people into giving you files.

I am regularly a nice person. I do not ass-kiss anyone, except for girls I'm trying to be with. :p

And, no I don't want "yer files" as Dan would put it.

I'd much rather the IMR be open-source, than anything else, because then not only I, but everyone else, would be able to improve on it. If I wanted "power" as you say, I could have done it a much easier way.

Anyway, I've admitted what I've done wrong, and I'm very happy to know that, if you posted all of our conversations since I've been Vigilante, they would prove your accusations wrong. (But, not what I did right).

And, you're definitely not trustworthy, because I never misbehaved since I've been Vigilante. :p


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:48 pm
Posts: 395
Oh so it's ok to lie in order to steal now?

The source you were lying to try and get was Haps IMR which is a lot more advanced than the one you have.

I think people like Hap and Austin had the right to know what was going on.

However, apart from that the Vigilante alias was a significant improvement on Gothrey.... If that wasn't just an act and you really can be a decent person then maybe the people here will start to accept you. It's up to you to prove yourself and be honest with people.


Last edited by Skelator on Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:02 am 
That doesn't matter. The motive you supplied was that I wanted to have power a.k.a. run my own HoverRace, or something of the sort.

Now, if I wanted to do that, I have HaP's IMR exe already, so I could if I wanted to. I don't.

The only reason I "want" the source is so I can help with it. As I've said many times now, I'd be happy if it were open-source.

Now, considering that's the last-ditch effort you just made to continue your false allegations against me... Are we finished? I really don't want to argue, but you're the only one saying anything I need to argue against. It's silly, really.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:48 pm
Posts: 395
Motive is unimportant. You still lied in order to get the IMR source. As I said before in our previous chats... quit with the lies and deception and people might start to respect you. We're giving you a chance here.

A name is only what you make it.... If you want people to like you then make Gothrey into someone that is likeable and honest about who he is.


Last edited by Skelator on Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:21 am 
Skelator wrote:
Motive is unimportant. You still lied in order to get the IMR source. As I said before... quit with the lies and deception and people might start to respect you.


According to U.S. law, motive is very important. You're just as bad as Dragon, attacking someone else in order to gain *more* status.

I never lied in order to get the source. Everything I said to HaP was true, and everything I said to you was true. It's all easily verifiable, as well.

As for you telling me to quit with the lies and deception? That's a joke and a half. Maybe you'd like to take your own advice someday.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:48 pm
Posts: 395
lol, that's funny hearing a Canadian talking about US law....

Gothrey, just back down, admit that what you did was wrong and everyting will be fine. As I said before, we are willing to give you a chance to prove that you are a decent person.

You don't need to pretend to be somebody else to do that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:30 am 
Skelator wrote:
lol, that's funny hearing a Canadian talking about US law....

Gothrey, just back down, admit that what you did was wrong and everyting will be fine. As I said before, we are willing to give you a chance to prove that you are a decent person.

You don't need to pretend to be somebody else to do that.


Now you're pretending to be all nice? After lying so much, and not even giving a hint of apologizing? You're the best manipulator around, really.

I think almost everyone here, whether they like me or not, can admit that if I had "come back" as Gothrey, which (as I can prove, if you want), I did... And, was nice about it, they'd still would have (and did) hate me.

The fact of the matter is that the only things I did wrong are almost a year in the past. What I did now was not wrong - per se - but something I need to do if I wanted to help with HoverRace at all.

I've aleady admitted many times that what I did in the past was wrong. What you've done to me now is also wrong, but you won't admit that. Nor will you apologize for it.

Now, since we all know both sides very nicely, either post all of our conversations to prove one of us right, or stop arguing, because this poll wasn't meant to start an arguement, but to allow people choice, something I believe in.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:48 pm
Posts: 395
I haven't told any lies... All that I've said is that you were hiding your identity and tried to obtain Haps source code while hiding your real identity.

Neither of those are lies....

I don't need to apologise for stating facts which can now be proved.

My advice to you is that you try to prove that you can continue to be like Vigilante all the time and not just part of the time. There was some good in Vigilante apart from the manipluation. Show more of that good side and maybe people will start to respect you.

There was once a time when I was banned from these forums..... Let's just say Austin and I didn't get on to start with. I also had problems with other people on here...... It wasn't my name that needed to change it was me. If Gothrey/Vigilante can change and be a good person then people will notice and start to accept you.


Last edited by Skelator on Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:51 am 
Almost every single thing you said in that post was a lie, either blatant, or covert.

I AM NOT going to continue this arguement. I think my point against you has been proven quite well by the fact that you will not post our complete conversation history, which you have.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:48 pm
Posts: 395
Why don't you post the logs if you're so concerned about them? As I told austin earlier, I don't have any logs.... I do however have the email you sent me using a fake name.

logs are easy to fake anyway

It doesn't really matter what we said on msn. You still tried to aquire the IMR source through deception by hiding your identity and using false names. Those are the only facts that can be proved.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:59 am 
Skelator wrote:
I said this:

Quote:
Johhnyb: I wont tell anyone yet..... As long as you behave yourself


You had said that you took that from your logs. Hence:

Quote:
Last edited by Skelator on Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:29 am; edited 2 times in tota
[/b]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:00 am 
Just quit lying already.

I think we all get it: You don't like me and/or you're out to screw me.

I really don't care; as long as you stop lying about me.


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